Bitcoin uncensored
DeRose regularly participates in public speaking events and is an active journalist. DeRose also regularly posts video content on his YouTube channel. There are close to 10, subscribers on the YouTube channel. The podcasts typically vary widely in length with some being as short as 30 minutes and others being over two hours. DeRose discusses a wide variety of cryptocurrency projects and his skilled at asking questions to delve deep into the crux of the concepts. DeRose also attends cryptocurrency events and conferences to discover more about specific projects and the people behind them.
The podcast has almost 2, followers on Soundcloud. Peter McCormack: One step at a time! I've talked to Chris about this sometimes and the thing is that I feel sometimes when I'm not toeing the line so much, I'm getting the result of years of arguing and resentment and anger thrown at me, for what is a conversation I'm going to have.
Junseth: You are, and no one can explain it. What's that experiment with the monkeys where they put them in and they shock the monkey if he touches the banana. Then they shock the monkey if he touches the banana and then they take the monkey out and then they put a new monkey in and they shock the monkey if he touches the banana. Then they take one out and eventually like the cycle perpetuates where the monkeys start beating up other monkeys to prevent them from getting shocked.
Then they take the shock out and then they have monkeys beating up each other no matter what, every time they go to touch a banana and no one can explain why! And that's a thing with you. You come here, you're entering a world of resentment and pain and hurt and say you point at something and everyone's like, "you can't go there! There are reasons by the way. Peter McCormack: So let me talk to you about the Rizun thing. As time goes on, I think I'm going to be more and more happy that I did the Rizun interview, not because of the interview itself, but because of what I learned about doing the interview.
Chris DeRose: I thought that was a great interview by the way. I thought it was phenomenal. Peter McCormack: So what's really interesting is that some really hardcore maximalists have come here and said, "that interview was terrible. You didn't hold him to account on things, you let them get away with stuff, blah, blah, blah.
By the way, you could have done this bit better" and kind of guide me. But let me just tell you what was really interesting about this and where I got confused. I'm happy about my podcast, because I've always tried to represent the people who've got no fucking idea and don't understand this stuff, because it's really complicated! I got myself into a place where everyone was angry with me. So I agreed to do the interview, "you're an idiot for doing it" from one side.
I stopped doing the interview, "you're an idiot" on one side. I was saying to this guy on Reddit, "look, just try and understand from my point of view what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to understand different narratives and different conversations. If I speak to this guy, everyone says that you're an idiot, you're a scammer. If I speak to this guy, the other side say, you're an idiot, you're a scammer. How the fuck do you navigate all this?
And how is someone new coming in to navigate this? By letting any degree of doubt enter, I mean, this is asinine to me, but that's what I see in people. If you're a journalist, then you need to explore the territory regardless of what you find. This talk of the narrative. I've gotten maybe a bit past it maybe, but like, what do you see? I understand what narratives are, but observations are so powerful and useful, that's where I think the meat should be for anybody who's doing actual journalism.
Whether or not anybody wants that in this space is very arguable. Peter McCormack: Well, what I see is people making binary arguments about things that definitely aren't binary and have got a lot of nuances to them. Chris DeRose: Sure! These are men of faith. Junseth: I think people have forgotten why these arguments matter or don't matter. Back in the day it was ridiculous and we thought it was ridiculous when a new Blockchain would come out and it would be Bitcoin, but with 5 minute block times or Bitcoin with 2 minute block times.
We would laugh at those people and we'd call them scammers and I would stand by that. But at the same time, those reasons have been forgotten. So if you go look in those corners, I think people will be mad at you. They'll be angry at you, but they won't remember the reasons why those things were problematic, at least at the start.
Peter McCormack: Let me tell you one that really stood out to me, one comment. It came through as a conversation on a DM, and I won't name them, but they said to me, "you're giving a platform to a scam. Chris DeRose: Thin skin!
Junseth: My God, the cowards and neurotics are out in force! We watch this globally right now, with this movement of people who are refusing to This notion of de-platforming. I hadn't heard that word until and it's insane to me. You can give anyone you want a platform, you're not affecting anyone's children's future. It's insane! I'm sad that that's leaking into Bitcoin. Chris DeRose: I would suggest you actually have a trigger warning and it pains me to say that, but I used to think trigger warnings were something that, I guess I don't know how to explain what I thought it was, but what's very evident to me is that if you put this disclaimer at the start of the show, you are now indemnified from whatever happens afterwards.
You can tell George Carlin jokes! Peter McCormack: I've already thought of a disclaimer for this show! I've already written one down. Also, it's not just disclaimers. Sometimes I'm thinking, "shit, how am I going to word this in a way, that's not going to get people shouting at me?
He's doing it because he fundamentally believes that. Peter McCormack: I'm an idiot. I'm a scammer. And I'm thinking Junseth: I'm sorry for whatever we did to contribute to that! Peter McCormack: But it's just an opinion. I've met the guy. I don't like what he's done with Bitcoin. I assume he owns Bitcoin, even though he denies it. I think he lies. I think he causes a lot of problems. I think calling Bitcoin, Bitcoin Core, personally I think it's a bit disingenuous.
There's a lot of bullshit there, but I don't think he forked Bitcoin to make a lot more money. I do think it was an attack on Bitcoin, I stand by that. But I think he fundamentally believes that Bitcoin should be peer to peer cash, because if you look at the history, he believed in a white paper that said it was that. Then he spent a lot of time trying to get retailers to adopt it. That's all he did. So his background supports the fact that he believes in that.
Chris DeRose: He also has a perspective that these people don't have, which is that the retailers didn't adopt because of X, Y, and Z reasons. We can argue about how accurate that is, but it doesn't matter because he was somebody who had the ability to see things in a way that the masses did not. I mean, this is one of the many reasons anarchy I think is retarded to me at this point.
You have people that are specialized in this part of the process. They should have an outsized power relating to that part of the process, at least in terms of defining the observation. But in this space, people don't want that to be seen. So they label him the deviant and rather than absorb that efficiency into the system, they cast out the observer.
It's a very classic religious story. Peter McCormack: But the point being is that a lot of people have said to me, "Pete, you're a journalist now. You need to be responsible for your content. I'm just a podcaster who fell into this. But then I'm worried about freely expressing my thoughts, as a potential journalist, because I think I'm going to get attacked. People are going to reach out to my sponsors and say "stop sponsoring him. It is an actual minefield.
Junseth: I kind of envy you actually, in the sense that I was there once in many ways and the excitement and the journey that you are going to go through as a result of this is just such a wonderful, fabulous journey. The way you saw the world before dealing with thousands and thousands of people, will never be the same now, after you go through this transformation. Some of these things I can give you my answers and things that I really strongly suspect are true.
Some of these things are just mysteries and I would hope maybe you would come to me with some of these solutions. Peter McCormack: Well I come to you now a lot more! So I didn't understand you at first. At first there was always that little fan boy who was always supporting you, he had like a white rose thing.
Chris DeRose: Oh yeah, I like him. Peter McCormack: Yeah. So at first I didn't understand you. I was like, "who's this guy? I can't understand what he's saying. Chris DeRose: That makes you an idiot! Peter McCormack: Yeah, but I feel myself starting to share some of your opinions or start to see the way you've operated or the contrarian views you take, because I find myself doing it and it starts to make more sense.
I think what happens is you go in, you get beaten up so much, you have two choices. You give up No, you've got three choices. You give up, you pick a side or you challenged everyone. Junseth: That is great! Chris DeRose: I like it. They evaluate the affinity, the source of the content and then the tone of the content.
Then they form a conclusion based on those components. Junseth: The tone in particular. Chris DeRose: Oh yeah, people are slaves to tone. They're conditioned to it as a matter of birth. Junseth: "I would have believed you, but you said it meanly!
I try very hard at least to consider, like what morality does this have in this way and then I remove it. That seems to at least alienate people whose opinion I don't care about and then often make the same point. That's been my solution. It's not necessarily the way everyone should go, but that's how I ended up there. Peter McCormack: But do you understand those three choices? Chris DeRose: Oh yeah. I think that there's those three choices. I absolutely do. Peter McCormack: And you picked option three?
Chris DeRose: Yeah, I think so. Peter McCormack: It beats you around a bit though, doesn't it? Then people call you a fucking snowflake! Chris DeRose: Oh yeah! Being a centrist is the hardest thing in the world and I don't think that I achieved that, but at least I tried to at some level. Being a centrist means you have no allies effectively.
That's why we have polarization in varying demographics. So I don't know what the right answer is for you. Peter McCormack: So I think I'm right of centre then because I'm definitely more conservative, definitely more Bitcoin, but I try and operate my work, allowing myself to go to the other side and just see what they've got to say or see what's there for a whole variety of reasons.
There's no financial benefit for doing it. There's no emotional or psychological benefit for doing it. It's a much harder thing to do, but it's intellectually stimulating. Junseth: Oh yeah! That's why you're doing this though. You are going to become anti-fragile too. So no matter what happens at the end of this, you're going to find yourself in rooms, so much better prepared than like I go to some things every now and again.
I went to city hall for something they were doing and just watching how normies There's this, I don't know, if you can make it in Blockchain, you can make it anywhere kind of thing. Just like the degree of hardening that the average citizen has compared to the degree of Bitcoin pundit, is a gigantic chasm. So if you want to do any number of things in the public after this, say you don't stay here forever, you will benefit from a lot of what you see in this respect.
Chris DeRose: Did you? Peter McCormack: Pretty much yeah, because I didn't understand the economics of it. Everyone gets free healthcare and God, they've got rid of free higher education, university, that was terrible. It was great that we got free education and then I came into Bitcoin and got exposed to things I wasn't aware of before, like socialism is one step from communism and is fundamentally evil.
Also if you want free education, why the fuck should I pay for it? Some of those things started to come through. Now I am not full conservative, but I've become more conservative because of that and I think in becoming more conservative you become hardened. Junseth: Well I mean, what's interesting politically, as it sounds like we're kind of taking that road.
I came into this space trying to be apolitical and I tend to be a fairly apolitical person. The only thing that I've ever cared about is, in terms of American governance, is this notion of the freedom of speech. I think in the last couple of years like that aspect, I care a lot about, I talk about a lot on my show and for me, I think that has ended up putting me in this camp, where people think that I'm right of centre as well.
I find politics to be very interesting because all of us came with like these weird perspectives. You a socialist, me an anarchist, I think Chris was apathetic! Chris' method for voting is who has had the most DUIs he researches! I think Bitcoin Looking at money a lot really makes you kind of re-examine all aspects of what it is that you came here to do and just your core beliefs generally.
If you're humble about it! Chris DeRose: Might be. I think you're doing fantastic. I love what I've seen so far from you. Whether or not it's humble, I don't know, but I think it's humble. Peter McCormack: I'm winging it for sure, because I'm a fucking idiot!
I'm never going to get some of this stuff. When you guys talk about consensus and when you go into detail, I don't get it. I just fundamentally don't get it and I've always admitted that, but I don't have a problem with that, because people who want hyperbitcoinisation, they need to understand that most people are probably more like me than them. Junseth: Well document your journey too. Take them with you into the mystery.
Chris DeRose: You'll also get things that you don't know that you'll get. A year from now you'll be way farther on, than you are today. It's kind of amazing to me, how much I know about Bitcoin's consensus algorithm and Bitcoin's consensus mechanisms and hashing and all this other stuff that I never gave two shits about, just because I've sat here and through osmosis, picked a lot of it up. Peter McCormack: Well that's what makes me laugh. There was another guy today on Twitter giving me shit, another maximalist going, "yeah, I've stopped listening to his show because of X, Y, Z, blah, blah, blah" and I say, "well when you first bought into my show, I didn't know fuck all.
I definitely know a lot more, I'm definitely more Bitcoin, yet now you've got a problem or is it because the show has grown in notoriety and other people are getting mad at me and you've got to go to your faction? Junseth: Well, you were accepted into his tribe first of all and now you aren't sufficiently conforming enough I think is Chris DeRose: Well people sense power too, in the sense that you appear with some degree of regularity and then to the degree that you're appearing is increasing, your power is increasing in some ways.
Then I think what happens is they either fear the power that you're exerting just by declaring from your affinity these things that are truths or close to it. Or they want to abuse your power to get you to promote messages that are conducive to their financial position. Junseth: It's also just easy to enjoy a fuckwit! Peter McCormack: Well, that power thing is interesting, because it's not something I want or ever have thought about at all.
But what I've noticed is there is, privately people trying to manipulate me quite a bit. I remember those days! Answer to the size of your audience. This is the thing. I talked a lot of people who are doing other kinds of content making, whether it's food blogging or just anything. I don't think that they realize that the power that they have is commensurate with the size of their audience.
If they have an audience of 4 million people, they might be talking about buttering muffins, but that's a lot of power that they have and that's what's going on with you. You actually don't realize how much influence that you have, when you have all of Bitcoin's audience.
Everybody listens to your show and that is a lot of power. It's a weird kind of power. Peter McCormack: Put in the hands of an idiot! Chris DeRose: All power is! Junseth: By the way, the free speech thing gets very muddled around here. I am very much for free speech, but you have people who clearly end up with outsized power over the beliefs of people.
Then it gets very murky from there how things transgress. There's no answers that I even promote here, but I recognize that the difficulties are around this. Chris DeRose: That's the narrative. Peter McCormack: Bitcoin is free speech. So I've looked at this and I've tried to look at both sides. I look at Bitcoin, they're saying it's censored and certainly some things are. I saw something, there was one comment about my interview with Peter Rizun that was like, "it was a great interview" and that got removed.
I was like, "okay, very interesting. That is clear censorship. Peter McCormack: But is it even censorship or is it moderation? Junseth: Censorship is moderation to some degree, that's the case. That's the right way to do it if you ask me. Chris DeRose: Yeah. All that happened, is it just moved over to Twitter.
So what happens, I've come to realize as a result of censorship policies, is that as soon as one person starts censoring, it becomes a cascade effect, because the people who are removed from the first discussion end up going into the second discussion, taking out their antagonism there to an amplified degree. They then create more discontent with nearby neighbors and before you know it, you have these bands of malcontents that go around the Internet, who are united in their identity, that is this thing that they're not allowed to talk about.
This is what I saw with anti-semitism even, is that as soon as you have any anti-semitic things come in, you find all of a sudden that throngs of people rushing, because now they have a venue to talk finally. Now it's this weird problem. Junseth: "What about the blacks! They're not welcome! Chris DeRose: I think a lot of it just stems from the first person to censor in many ways.
As soon as you have a big site do it, now it becomes this entrenched belief for somebody. Junseth: And that becomes a safe space to say anything. Peter McCormack: So what do you believe? Should we have censorship? Is it warranted in certain cases? Chris DeRose: I think it depends on where it comes from. It's also difficult because you have effectively public utilities, that are being run like companies.
So if you had a healthy marketplace for a lot of these types of discussions, then it would be an easy thing to say like, "okay well this person here doesn't take it but this one will. But when you have a single company controlling the entire conversation, like Twitter or Facebook, now it gets really complicated.
Chris DeRose: Which I don't think was true. Junseth: It wasn't true. It was obviously not true, because you could just move to Twitter or you can move anywhere else. Junseth: Yeah, you could make your own sub Reddit. But yeah, I think that that's absolutely correct. I think that these are effectively utilities.
Chris DeRose: It will probably happen on Amazon too. I wouldn't be surprise. Junseth: Where they're going to have some weird thing, they're going to have to deal with and then it's going to end up causing untold damage to some weird industry and we'll see it happen there I have no doubt. I mean this sort of like first mover advantage thing or whatever it is that causes these mega companies now Chris DeRose: I think the government's finding it difficult.
I think a lot of it stems from Netscape in the 90s going public before they had any profits. That was really unheard of. Ever since then that's been the modus operandi for companies, they go public before they have profits and what do they do? They do a burn rate. They do basically what a startup would do and they do it for 20 years, because they have 85 billion trillion Dollars and they can get away with it.
So it used to be that those kinds of companies couldn't survive, but now they do and so what you have, is you have these companies that have established themselves as oligopolies or monopolies and can essentially "de-person" people, which blows my mind. Because you can't unsee it. Because there's a world in which none of us had social media and I was content having the voice where I could yell out my window and my neighbors would hear me and that was a perfectly fine world. Then someone opened up my eyes, like the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and all of a sudden I realized that I could have a voice that the whole world could see.
You can't undo that. You can't unsee that. Peter McCormack: Has that made the world a better place or worse? Chris DeRose: Everything moves towards the better. I have a lot of sympathy for trying to moderate billions of tweets every day. But at the same time it does certainly feel like there is a liberal bias, which is censoring conservative opinion. Junseth: I've gotten to calling it the technological genocide at this point. I just don't think that there's two words about it.
They don't give a fuck and they're not hiding it. I think that they don't know what the right thing to do is. The laws used to, I think, provide resolutions to a lot of these problems and now we de-regulated so many things that I suspect people are just finding the Junseth: Well the liberals are now saying, " well they're just a company!
I don't know how they work in Britain. Chris DeRose: That blows my mind too. Junseth: Is he actually What is the progress on that? Peter McCormack: I'll show you the documents after this. Junseth: Has he filed a complaint in court? Peter McCormack: Do you want to see it? Chris DeRose: I think he's just going to walk away is my strong suspicion. Junseth: I think he wants a court to say that he's definitely Satoshi.
Peter McCormack: I don't think he's going to walk away. Chris DeRose: It's what he's doing here in Florida. I mean we have a history with this guy here. Junseth: The Kleiman one is interesting because I think a lot of people don't remember that episode by the way. Us going to go look at Kleiman, that was a weird day.
Chris DeRose: Do you remember that? That was a weird fucking day. Junseth: That was a weird day. I mean, the whole thing is weird. I don't think we ever got a good answer as to what happened to his actual murder. Junseth: Sorry! Peter McCormack: No, It was good. It was really interesting listening to the way you teed her up. Actually, it was a real master class in getting to the point, it was great! It was Blockchain bullshit. So then I listened to the Kleiman one and Mike was like, "look, you're just going to have to jump through a bunch of stuff before you get to it.
So I never actually got to I got to the bit where you were talking about the gates and opening the gates. I never actually got to the meat of it. I find the whole Kleiman thing fascinating, because it's either absolutely nothing or maybe he created Bitcoin. Junseth: Well we find it fascinating too because it's in Florida, it's a great Florida story. Chris DeRose: All the old Bitcoiners, their stories are fascinating. The class of and below, is just one story after the next.
Junseth: There's no question that something happened there and the whole who is Satoshi thing, I think in some ways is a little bit uninteresting in itself as a question. But the desire to claim the mantle of Satoshi, that is a study in psychology, that in my mind very interesting.
People showing up and wanting to be that. Then you have the messiah! Chris DeRose: Dorian Nakamoto was crowned! We used to joke about it as like, you have a new Satoshi Nakamoto every few years, but Dorian Nakamoto shows up, he's crowned and he didn't want that. It was the opposite. Peter McCormack: Someone just turned up on his doorstep? Was it the Washington Times? Chris DeRose: And said that he's Satoshi! He didn't ask for it, I think that makes the entire difference.
That he's like a patron saint now. Junseth: He's he's now painted! Just some guy who likes trains! What did you guys find out? Because I've heard things, that maybe he was poisoned? Junseth: No, no. If I remember, maybe you remember better, the big mystery was why there was a bullet hole in the mattress and his gun wasn't fired. Chris DeRose: The story was that his girlfriend found him.
Which we found out wasn't true, it wasn't his girlfriend. Peter McCormack: This is proper investigative journalism! Junseth: We showed up! We did everything. We showed up everywhere. We violated a lot of laws I'm sure! Chris DeRose: The leads basically went dead at the time. They may be resuscitated now. I think that the reporting police officer on the scene, would probably have the most information right now and I don't know what happened to that person. Junseth: We did everything.
We called his business partner and talked to him. We showed up at the girlfriend's house! Met with her husband or whatever. Peter McCormack: It sounds like a serial investigation! Junseth: It was, we were creepy!
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The minimum payout is 0. Saying the interview did not go as she had planned, would be the understatement of the year. The Bitcoin Uncensored hosts seem convinced Perianne knowledge on Bitcoin , the blockchain, and regulation is rather disappointing. Then again, people have given horrible interviews in the past, especially when they feel like others are trying to poke holes in their knowledge.
While there is a right to freedom of speech, it would not be the first time an episode had to be pulled offline. By the look of things, Perianne Boring has decided to take legal action if the episode is not removed immediately. It will be rather difficult to enforce the hosts removing the episode, though.
Boring agreed to be on the show and have it published afterward. There does not seem to be any derogatory comments in the episode either. This situation sets an interesting precedent, and once again shows there is still a lot of education to be done on Bitcoin and blockchain.
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